Bankrput one car company, bring another one back

". ." (xllx) 10/24/2013 at 15:36 • Filed to: oppositelock

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Imagine that you have the power to bring one historical car company that's has gone belly up by now, but at the cost of sacrificing one of the existing carmakers. Who would you bring back and who would you condemn?

The company you bring back would return with a modern range of models that's based on its original 'DNA', while the one you sacrifice would close down instantly with no chance of return.

Give me your ideas, Oppo.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:38

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I'd bankrupt 2010 Toyota and bring back 1985 Toyota.

dogisbadob > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:39

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KILL GM for all the DAMAGE they've done, and this time NO bailout

Bring back AMC

505Turbeaux > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:39

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Kill - Toyota

Revive - Pierce Arrow

Buffalo needs something besides for snow anyways. American luxury revival - not caddy or lincoln style

lepie > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:39

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Bring back matra. Sacrifice mitsubishi.

HeelToe Do-See-Do > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:41

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Bring back Pontiac because GTO, G8 GT, and I'd love to see a current gen Trans-Am.

Bankrupt Mitsubishi because (Insert terrible current car here)

Hoccy > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:41

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I'll bankrupt Ssangyong, and bring Saab back.

PelicanHazard > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:41

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I'd kill Mitsubishi. It fell very far.

In its place, I would give every other carmaker a run for their money and revive Tucker. Let's see the innovation that results.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:41

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Fiat can get back out (I've a feeling quite a feel people will sacrifice Lincoln) and let's bring back... Duesenberg or Studebaker, a true stand-alone American luxury brand. As much as Bentley is one to VW, they have no really obvious ties, unlike say GM and Cadillac. I realize they'd need the support of a large automaker, just don't make it obvious, much like VW has managed to do with Bentley.

Other marques I wouldn't miss much are Lexus and/or Toyota.

duurtlang > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:42

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Bankrupt: GM. An also-ran company with little to no appealing offerings for ages (EU perspective).

Bring back: Matra.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:46

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In a separate comment, I'd like to offer this thought:

Get rid of a company and don't bring one in, in its place. At the same time people should keep their cars longer, rather than bringing annualized sales back up to 17 million or whatever it is, let it drop to 14 million. Less turnover of new cars would be better than pushing electric, hybrid or whatever cars. The tax placed on the environment by new-car-production would be significantly lessened. Likely by much more than it would if we buy new, more efficient cars at what frankly is an astonishing and dizzying rate.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:48

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Kill modern, Fiat-era Alfa and bring back old school, awesome Alfa.

. . > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/24/2013 at 15:48

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I like this idea.

Jagvar > 505Turbeaux 10/24/2013 at 15:48

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Pierce-Arrow would be my number-one choice to bring back, too. That or Duesenberg. They're neck-and-neck.

Grindintosecond > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:50

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Auburn/Cord/Dusenberg. Resurrection of quality high end.

Auburn=bmw/audi, Cord=Bentley, Dusenberg=RR/Maybach.

Crucify Lincoln (just rebadge material),

Jagvar > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:52

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Are we hypothetically nixing an entire company , or can we just axe a brand? (For example, can we get rid of Scion without killing all of Toyota? Or GMC without killing all of General Motors?)

Mikeado > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:52

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Does SAAB still count if they're now building cars again? I would like to swap them for Lancia. Lancia are a shadow of their former selves and Fiat doesn't seem to care. Now that it's interchangeable with Chrysler in Europe, I'd rather they just did the caring thing and killed it off to spare it the misery.

If SAAB no longer count, then I'm bringing back Matra. The automotive world is lacking in crazy technological innovators like them. Speedhunters recently had some great posts on Matra.

505Turbeaux > Jagvar 10/24/2013 at 15:53

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I was on the fence myself, Pierce-Arrow, Duesenberg, or Stutz...although they tried to revive the corpse of Stutz once before with the Bearcat/Blackhawk and a truck or something based on a burban

. . > Jagvar 10/24/2013 at 15:54

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You can stick to brands if you want, but don't make'em too obscure.

dogisbadob > 505Turbeaux 10/24/2013 at 15:54

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Pierce Arrow is a great answer! What's wrong with Toyota though? They make great cars.

SpeedSix > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:54

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Bankrupt: Mitsubishi

Revive: Panhard

dogisbadob > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 15:56

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Hasn't Alfa been owned by Fiat for a longtime though?

505Turbeaux > dogisbadob 10/24/2013 at 15:56

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knee jerk reaction. Blinded by beige :)

SpeedSix > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:56

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Bankrupt: one of those tiny crappy Chinese car companies, like Yema

Revive: Tatra

505Turbeaux > SpeedSix 10/24/2013 at 15:56

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oooh good call. An innovator!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:58

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Kill mitsu

revive AMC

Jagvar > . . 10/24/2013 at 15:59

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In that case, I'd kill Scion. The only worthwhile car they have is the FRS, and that would live on as a Subaru BRZ anyway.

I think I'd resurrect Duesenberg. I'd love to see what a true American competitor to Rolls-Royce could do today.

Jonee > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:00

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And kill Dodge because it doesn't serve all that much of a purpose any more.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:01

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Let's look at two families that bought the following cars new:
(1) buys and keeps a '08 Charger R/T for 6 years
(2) buys an '08 Camry and then bought an '11 Prius

I'm willing to bet family 1 is better for the environment than family 2, even though family 2 are the ones bragging to everyone how environmentally friendly they are because they bought a Prius.

SpeedSix > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:01

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Bankrupt: one of those crappy little Chinese companies like Lifan

Revive: Glas

. . > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/24/2013 at 16:03

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That also shows the idiocy behind pushing schemes like Cash For Clunkers as eco friendly. They're anything but that.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > dogisbadob 10/24/2013 at 16:03

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Since the mid-80s, and Fiat didn't really get a chance to start ruining things until the early 90s.

SpeedSix > Grindintosecond 10/24/2013 at 16:03

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Not to be nitpicky, but it's Duesenburg. Nice choices regardless.

duurtlang > Mikeado 10/24/2013 at 16:04

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You're the third who mentions Matra. That's a good thing. Maybe we should start a huge Jalopnik movement to bring it back.

A nice MR coupe with three seats like the Baghera and Murena.

A vehicle like the Rancho of the 70s, a FWD CUV for the masses.

A non-premium RWD sports sedan/hatch/wagon because broader lineup.

505Turbeaux > SpeedSix 10/24/2013 at 16:04

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technically doesnt need revival, since they still make trucks. They need persuasion

SpeedSix > 505Turbeaux 10/24/2013 at 16:05

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Well, they are a shadow of their former self, much like Lancia, Mitsubishi, Dodge, etc.

505Turbeaux > SpeedSix 10/24/2013 at 16:06

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need more air cooled rear mounted v8's in the world :)

. . > SpeedSix 10/24/2013 at 16:06

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Actually, it's Duesenberg.

SpeedSix > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:07

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Oh oops, didn't notice I typed a "u" instead of an "e".

AMC/Renauledge > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:08

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Bankrupt: Toyota

Bring back: Packard.

We're the wealthiest country in the world. We can do better than Cadillac. We once did do better than Cadillac.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:10

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Haha yep, I can't wait to tell some smug asshole that my 400+ horsepower sedan is better for the environment because I've had it for 10 years. Is it ideal? No. But it's better than buying new cars frequently and it is certainly more driving pleasure than most hybrids.

If I had the money to comfortably buy new cars all the time, would I? I might. The market is never going to live up to this ideal that I outline here and I won't be the one campaigning to get there, haha.

AMC/Renauledge > duurtlang 10/24/2013 at 16:11

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YES! Bring these back now!

duurtlang > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/24/2013 at 16:11

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Depends. The 08 Camry isn't scrapped in 11, so theoretically it can lead just a long a life as if it hadn't been sold after three years by its original owners. However, in my experience every 'new' owner treats a car worse than the previous owner, which doesn't contribute to longevity.

I think there should be some kind of incentive to keep cars for a relatively long time, and in good condition. So some kind of variable licensing fees/tax depending on the age of the car and a mandatory safety/emissions inspection.

TheJWT > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 10/24/2013 at 16:19

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Same goes for Lancia

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > duurtlang 10/24/2013 at 16:21

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The used car market is entirely irrelevant in this argument. I would assume that most of them live out their life as a used car. But it's the behavior of consistently buying new cars that is hurting the environment. Directly affecting a countries annualized sales rate is what reduces new-car-productions' tax on the environment. That's why I am arguing shrinking the market by one major manufacturer will do just that, but only if demand doesn't shift to other manufacturers, but instead shifts to a behavioral change where people keep cars for a longer period of time.

Can this be done? Hell no! Haha. Yes maybe you can apply some regulation, but that costs money too. The reason I want to amputate part of the car industry is so that the financial health of the remaining companies stays relatively the same.

My idea is a pipe-dream, but perhaps having environmentalists/government push for holding on to your car longer rather than pushing Prii and Volts, we could get some semblance of this idea going. Perhaps shift credits from new car purchases to a tax-credit for re-registering a car that is at least 3 years old, or older.

Mikeado > duurtlang 10/24/2013 at 16:25

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See? They predicted three popular market segments (the first being cheap sports cars, not 3+0 seaters, although that's the USP sorted). They'd be a perfect choice to bring back.

duurtlang > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/24/2013 at 16:28

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I recognizethe problem you're describing. I've seen perfectly fine older and undesirable cars sent to the junkyard because they needed some very regular things, like tires, a muffler and some other quite normal stuff which, combined, were more than €500 or so and thus enough to economically total the car. It's so wasteful. Combined with the treehuggers who don't see the whole picture and push Volts and Prii and prematurely junk older cars it really is a shame.

Slave2anMG > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:31

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Kill: Buick

Revive: Oldsmobile.

Because zero sum game.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:33

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I'd kill Buick and bring back Triumph. Firstly, we don't get Buick over here. Secondly, they're mostly rebadged Opels sold in China now aren't they? Lastly, I bloody love Triumph.

That is unless I'm allowed to bankrupt whole automotive groups. I'd kill GM, because they've got some karma coming for Saab and Pontiac (not that they culled them, but the manner in which they did).

I'd bring back BL. Not for their manegerial skill (snicker), but for their stable of marques. Not only would we get Triumph back, we'd get Rover (proper Rover) and MG (proper MG too).

I reckon they'd have a better stab at it this time. Either that or just have them sell the marques with cache to other British manufacturers. Triumph to JLR, maybe MG and Rover to Aston.

Shiftright > . . 10/24/2013 at 16:34

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Kill Buick...They only still exist because of China
Revive Saab (duh)..

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/24/2013 at 16:42

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Either that or kill the big 3 Germans. BMW, Mercedes and Audi. They've got an enormous market share that could be utilised by carmakers that make something other than the standard German saloon.

Alfa, Saab, Peugeot, Citroen, Volvo, Lancia...all would benefit from the power vacuum left behind by the Germans. Maybe we'd get something that steps outside of the mould a little too.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 16:52

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Yes please. I'd have loved to have seen an evolution of the transaxle era Alfas, rather than the FWD Fiat platform Alfas we actually got.

Many are still great cars, but all would have been improved with more transaxle.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/24/2013 at 17:01

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More transaxle is the answer!

Kurisu95 > . . 10/24/2013 at 17:02

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kill- Mitsubishi

Revive Saab or Isuzu

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 17:02

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If I get round to buying a GTV6, Alfetta or 75 I'll get a sticker that says 'more transaxle!'

. . > Kurisu95 10/24/2013 at 17:04

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Isuzu isn't dead.

Kurisu95 > . . 10/24/2013 at 17:06

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they only make trucks now

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/24/2013 at 17:12

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I think you meant when*.

duurtlang > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/24/2013 at 17:14

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That's an interesting concept. Getting rid of the Big Three would totally transform the car landscape here, as they've got 95+% of the luxury market not smaller than the BMW 3-series. Moreover, almost every sedan I see is one of these three. It will never happen, but like you said it would be incredibly interesting watching what would happen in the vacuum they leave. I imagine the French, Volvo and Jaguar would see their sales soar. The Japanese and maybe even the Americans might be able to get a slice of the action as well.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 17:17

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You know, I was just thinking of editing that :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > duurtlang 10/24/2013 at 17:19

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Ah, I'd forgotten about Jaguar.

I reckon Maserati would do well now that they've got the Ghibli at the high end of the 5-series market. Alfa would do well too so long as they finally get a car to sell.

willkinton247 > . . 10/24/2013 at 17:24

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Kill Chrysler. I don't care, I can't love those cars. I just can't.

Bring back...

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duurtlang > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 10/24/2013 at 17:49

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Agreed, I forgot about the Italians. Stupid mistake really, there's so much (unused) potential there.

Kailand09 > . . 10/24/2013 at 17:52

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I really want to kill off Toyota, but they are trying lately. Had this been a few years back I wouldn't have a second thought about it. So that leaves me with... hmm... Fiat still has the 8 and 4C, so they are barely hanging on imo. I might go with mitsubishi.

bring back? AMC or packard.

Grindintosecond > SpeedSix 10/24/2013 at 18:02

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Yeah i was just pounding out the thoughts as i go.

RickyD > . . 10/24/2013 at 18:45

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Bankrupt-Honda, they have no plans to do anything good for the world anymore that isn't made of vanilla and fwd

Revive Triumph Motor Company, they were building the Miata before it was cool.

SpeedSix > RickyD 10/24/2013 at 23:32

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Not all that is FWD is vanilla.

RickyD > SpeedSix 10/25/2013 at 05:31

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I've never been a huge fan of pistachio either

Leadfoot866 > HeelToe Do-See-Do 10/25/2013 at 19:59

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Mitsubishi is quite tragic, but I would actually kill GMC to bring back Pontiac.

Why?

Because EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of their vehicles is available as a Chevy.

Sierra -> Silverado
Terrain -> Equinox
Acadia -> Traverse
Yukon -> Tahoe/Suburban
Savana -> Express

It like Ford and Mercury. Unless Chevy dumps its GMC counterparts, there really is no point for GMC to exist anymore. Buick and Cadillac at least have some unique vehicles in their lineup.

I too would like to see the GTO and Firebird come back. If done right, Pontiac could have real potential as a specialize-in-performance brand (like it used to be before all the badge-engineering nonsense).

marshknute > . . 11/02/2013 at 01:44

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Can I nominate Lincoln for both?